i want to learn to weld...

I bought a Lincoln AC-225 at an auction for $50 it was brand new at the time, if you could find one of those models that is AC/DC for a couple hundred bucks it would be a good place to start. K1297 AC/DC 225/125 230/1/60 is the part number, it's not a great machine and it won't do TIG but it could get you started cheap. With that being said, one of these days I am going to get a nice stick/TIG set-up for home use. The Miller Maxstar 150 is a nice package that you can TIG weld with but it's going to cost you more that $1000 http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/c000034.htm

 

THenningsen, Those sites you listed with the equipment will work for what you want, for now. My point is; If you buy, buy one of those used, like that one listed on e-bay or locally at a fraction of the cost of a new unit. SAVE your money for future equipment upgrades. Upgrades need not be new. You just need to be mindful of what to look for. Agreeing that the cheap buzz box will allow you to play and practice. When you take classes and see how some of the better equipment works, I doubt you will be satisfied with the buzz box! Running 7018 rod on AC is a lot different than 7018 rod on DCEP. DCEP from a generator welder is smooth, smoother than that run on a DC rectifier, but not near as smooth as 7018 rod run with an inverter. I guarentee that you will not be satisfied. You will just be financially stuck with an unsatisfactory experience. :{ Try the class first, save some money and look before you leap! There are different levels of welding. I hope you will be satisfied in the long run. I wish you Well! GregH

 

I agree with Greg, that a "buzz box" is not fun. I had one that was left for me to store in my old garage. I tried it. I built a bumper with it. It was not "easy" to use, even though I have a couple of years welding experience. There are some little inverters out there for a under 600 dollars. Thermal- Dymanics has a small one called a 85 Dragster. It has 85 amps... DCEP. A friend of mine bought one on a job... a guy got a discount buy on them... . I think he payed about 250 for it. I ran it -welding on my fifth wheel trailer... . and found it to be a satisfactory machine for running 3/32 rod. It also can be used for scratch start TIG.



I am not trying to promote Thermal Dynamics... ... it's just that these are the "small" welders that I have some run along with the Miller Maxstar 150. I do believe that Miller makes a smaller inverter than the 150.



I agree with Greg on trying a class first, to see what the equipment will do and then make your decision. The weld supply (locally for me) also allows a person to go in the back a play with the equipment. They also give some instruction after work hours. Ask around with some of your local suppliers.

I didn't just go out and buy a welder... . it took me three years of looking at what Miller, Lincoln and others had to offer, talking to weld supply stores and looking on the internet.



I just looked at weldingsupply.com where I found a Lincoln inverter- Invertec V100S that compares with the Dragster... for just over 500 bucks.

 

I really like the Thunderbolt, but I'd get the Hobart instead. It's exactly the same welder (except for the paint), but slightly cheaper. Miller owns Hobart now.



Ryan

 

I can't imagine not having an O/A rig. Saved my bacon a few times. The last time was I was already to Jeeping, go to hook up the Jeep and my tow hook was in the receiver. Where was the key to the lock? I never did find it. Theres no way I ever would have been able to hacksaw it off. They're not expensive either.



Talk to welders too. I got my mig rig from a guy that would have got a few bucks for it on ebay, but was happy to give it to someone he knew would use it.

 

what would you all recommend as far a brand/models of torches? I've heard of Harris and Victor.

 

Victor, Smith, Harris,and last but not least, "FREE". Seriously, any brand name torch set will work fine. There are different sizes in each brand catagory. I have extensively used Victor and Smith. The torch set presently in my home shop is a mid-sized Smith. I got rid of the single stage Smith regulators and replaced them with dual stage Linde regulators. There are flashback arrestors on the regulators. The Oxygen bottle is a 250Cu. Ft. and the Acetylene bottle is 130Cu. Ft. on a shop built cart with wheelbarrow tires for rough terrain. I have the capability to run 100' of hose. Came in handy when the low temperatures froze and busted a copper waterline one winter. I ran hoses under the house and silver brazed the hole shut. Worked great. Have to go , power fluctuations. Frankly speaking, it is to heavy for me to handle outside the shop these days. GregH

 

They have a set at home depot made by Harris. Do you recommend dual stage regulators?

 

Yes! But not absolutely necessary. Make sure you install flashback assestors on the regulators, at a minimum. GregH

 

greg- can you explain the difference between a dual and a single stage regulator?

 

TH. A single stage regulator has a single diaphragm and spring under the delivery pressure adjustment handle. The tank pressure is reduced to the delivery pressure as adjusted by the user, in one step. A dual stage regulator has two sets of diaphragms and springs that drop tank pressure to a factory determined preset level at the first stage then the gas then goes through a second pressure reduction step that is controlled by the screw adjustment handle on the outside of the regulator and adjusted by the user. The disadvantage of the single stage regulator is that it has a tendency to pulse the delivery pressure. The two stage regulators eliminate this tendency. Another advantage to the two stage regulators is that you have an extra regulation system between you and the bottle pressure. Remember!!! (1. ) NEVER stand in front of the adjustment handle or on the regulator side of a high pressure bottle when you open the bottle valve. (2. ) Always open and backseat a high pressure bottle valve. You reduce the chance of leaking away your expensive gas and you also prevent the possibility of bottle valve packing failure. ( Acetylene bottle excepted. ) (3. ) Make sure your high pressure bottles are secured. (4. ) Never use an Acetylene bottle in the prone position. You will drain the acetone out of the bottle faster than the acetone will release Acetylene creating a dangerous situation. GregH

 

This is good stuff. What do you mean "open and backseat"? Do you mean "tighten the valve, then loosen it up and re-tighten"?



And why isn't this necessary with an acetylene tank?



Ryan

 

Ryan, A High pressure bottle valve is a double seat valve. It has a seat fully open and a seat fully closed. When you open a valve on an Oxygen bottle with 2500 Lbs pressure, plus or minus, ( with regulator attached ) you slowly crack the valve open and allow the pressure to build slowly. That way you dont slam the regulator diaphragm, possibly damaging it and yourself. Once the bottle pressure is fully indicated, then continue to open the bottle valve all the way until it stops, then snug it. It is now backseated. An Acetylene bottle does not have anywhere near that amount of pressure in it. About 250#, Plus or minus. There is still the packing leak issue but not as severe as with the bottle pressures measured 10X that of the Acetylene. The main issue with Acetylene is its flammability, hence the normally open position of 1/4-1/3 turn for easy emergency shut-off. You should leak check your bottles, hoses and torch assembly with a compatable soap mixture if you suspect a leak. Of course, if you smell Acetylene and the torch body valves are turned off, you do have a leak. GET IT FIXED. Something else that needs to be addressed; Before you attach your regulators make sure there is no dirt in the bottle orifice and seat for the CGA fitting on the regulator. You may have to crack the bottle valve to clear any dirt or obstructions that may have found their way into the valve. Wear ear and eye protection! Enjoy. GregH

 

Fascinating. I've never been taught any of this. There's a good chance that my $35 membership might actually save my life one day!

Ryan

 

I'm happy that I can be of some service, here. GregH

 

I would have - if I had a torch. Don't have one yet.



Ryan

 

Never hurts to have that stuff gone over again. Especially for people like me who only weld and cut occasionally.



A friend of mine (who usually is pretty level headed) decided to fill garbage bag up with oxy/acetylene mix (got it right lit then snuffed out the torch). He said it cracked windows in the neighborhood. Fortunately no one got hurt. He now says he will never ever ever play with acetylene again.

 

THenningsen: Around 1997 I got highly PO'd at a local shop that charged me a second time to repair something they had fab'd for me that had broken, and decided to learn to weld "correctly" so that I could weld my own aluminum and stainless steel in addition to mild steel (I'm a hobbyist and boat owner). I started taking welding classes 2 nts/wk at the local jr. college (in so. California). I took beginning arc/stick, intermed stick, MIG, and 3 semesters of TIG. That took 2-1/2 years; when I finished (wasn't interested in certification or other similar courses, as I wasn't going to weld for a living) they made me a teaching assistant in the beginning stick course, back where I had started. I was able to continue to practice and make things while the beginning students were in the classroom, then I helped the instructor during the second half of the evening in the welding shop.



Some of the benefits of going to the local jr college: Two competent instructors from whom to learn; late model equipment on which to practice welding; unlimited supply of practice material (in particular aluminum and stainless steel in the later courses; welding rod at a hefty student discount; a very BIG textbook on the entire spectrum of welding at a discounted student price; 10% discount on all supplies/equipment at local weldiing supply shops by showing my student ID card. After I became a teaching assistant I was allowed to use the "rest of the equipment reserved for the instructors" that was normally locked up, such as a brake, a roll, drill-press, and so forth. In addition there were specialty welders available for use that were normally not part of any of the courses, such as a spot welder and a band saw blade welder. And, as a volunteer teaching assistant, the college issued me a complimentary parking permit; having it allowed me to go to the shop anytime it was open and work on my own stuff, provided there was space available. And, over the next two or three years, I picked up two regulators that were being thrown out, had them repaired for about half the cost of new ones, and now use them in my own shop. The head of the welding dept had a budget to spend every year, and knew that if he didn't spend it, he would get less the next year, so there was a constant renewal of equipment -- sometimes the several teaching assistants could pick up used equipment at an very good prices.



A few weeks ago I was at a metal supply yard ordering material for a project, and was shown an aluminum assembly that had been welded by a professional shop nearby. I recognized immediately that I'm a much better welder that whoever made that item, even though I'm only a hobbyist.



The downside of the jr/community college courses is that the courses are usually VERY crowded at the beginning of each semester -- sometimes three or four people to each machine. But, every semester the same thing happened: After a few weeks, the chaff started to melt away; in particular the 18 to 20 yr-olds who thought that they were going to get a $25. 00/hr job after one semester in the welding shop. They didn't realize they had to learn/master 9 joints in five different welding positiions, for a total of 45 different joints/welds in EACH welding process they wished to learn; at 2 nts per week that took a minimum of two years. And, they didn't like getting burned, having holes burned in their $75 sports shoes, getting hot cinders down their backsides because they didn't pull their pants up, having to take off their lip, nose and tongue jewelry, etc. Also, if you are a dedicated student, you'll find yourself getting to the college welding shop as soon as it opens in the evening, and staying as late as the instructors will let you, in order to get as much "time under the hood" as possible. 45 joints/welds is a LOT to learn in 18 weeks, in addition to the classroom book-work.



So, once you tough-out the first three or four weeks of each semester, you'll find that the local jr/comm college is THE best place to go and also the least expensive. Good luck.

 

JWChessell, Amen Brother, I could not have said it better. GregH