Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) ECM and FASS pump

Most of us concur that it is a wiring issue now. Thanks for your input and tips about highlighters.One person posted on one of my other threads that there is a sensor in the rear differential for the tone ring that he pulled out and cleaned when he had some whacky tachometer and speedometer issues and it took care of the problem. I really believe there is more than that though and seems to keep going back to the CPS code.The code for no communication between ECM and injector module as well. I believe his next step is to check all the pins on the connector to the ECM. I don`t know that it would be that though so maybe two issues. aargh! Thanks!

 

Thank you for clarifying some things. It still would be of great help if you can provide a timeline to the best of your ability. Even approximate dates and mileage are helpful. Use any receipts you may have to help fill in the history. Please, try to be as detailed as possible. Detail matters, especially when a problem is difficult to resolve.

Example:

* Aug 2015 - 265,000 miles - in-tank lift pump failed, replaced with FASS lift pump. (Frame rail mount or OEM location?)
* Sep 2019 - 275,000 miles - replaced ECM and CPS
* Sep 2022 - 285,000 miles - truck has been running fine until now. Fuse blown for FASS lift pump. I called FASS and they guy asked if it was a cummins and I said yes so he told me that I needed to wire directly to a hot source because the ECM wasn`t recognizing it. I couldn`t get the guy who lost his shop so I did it myself. (What exactly did you do?)
* December 2022 ......,

You get the idea. I know my examples are likely to be incorrect - only you know the details. Those details could be very important. Things to include in your timeline are the details of things like when you drove through the puddle of water, when you washed the engine, when you replaced CPK's and CPK pigtail, when you started using your new mechanic, when the most recent problems began showing, when and what codes were set, when and what repairs were done, how did the truck perform before and after repairs, etc.

Also, I would closely monitor and document trouble codes, as these trouble codes can point you in the right direction for trouble shooting. Scanners can be purchased (such as OBLinkMX) for less than $150. You would be able read and clear codes on a regular basis.

You have had a lot done to this truck which can sometimes make it more difficult to diagnose problems. There is no guarantee that a component is good just because it is new or re-built, nor is there any guarantee that labor performed didn't contribute to another problem. Not being critical of your mechanic or your source of parts, just keeping an open mind. I have personally wrenched for a living for over 30 years, and I can't count the times that I created a new problem (certainly not intentionally) when performing repairs. Some of those created problems were difficult to diagnose.

- John

 

Thank you John. It may be difficult for me to get the correct timelines but I will try. The guy I`m using now is highly recommended and has proven himself to be the best so far. The guy who installed my FASS however, I feel wasn`t on top of things. Obviously when he installed my fuel gauge, I knew when it showed I had pressure even when I knew my FASS wasn`t working. I can backtrack to the puddle incident to the October before this last. I will try to sift through my papers to see what I can find.

 

I think the guy you have now is a good man for the job. He gets extra points from me for asking for a repair manual with wiring diagrams.

Looking forward to seeing your timeline.

- John

 

I`m fin

ding

I`m finding some interesting things in my reciepts for my truck. First time the injector pump went out was 11/28/2005 with 121,544 miles on it. Next repair was the transfer pump on 12/02/2005 because he didn`t realize they had to replace the LP when doing the injector pump. This was when the LP pump was installed in the tank
12/12/2008 CPS code and replaced CPS (P0336) mileage 161,335
3/31/2012 Code P0336 was cleared and not replaced
8/3/2012 P0336 again and this time replaced
I can`t find a reciept yet but as I recall my LP and injector pump were changed out again.
truck died towed in 1/9/2015 Injector pump replaced mileage 228,216
10/2/2015 truck towed in and injector pump replaced again under warranty no mileage on ticket
This is when I had the FASS pump installed by this mechanic because of the LP failures I can`t find the ticket but it was right around this time.
Another CPS code and new CPS 8/17/2017
I`ll have to dig more for receipts but I know the ECM was replaced summer of 2018
The CPS code keeps showing up every 2-3 years it looks like.
Now from here we keep getting the CPS code and the other code for no communication between the injector pump and ECM
We replaced the ECM again last month and my mileage is just under 300,000
Puddle was October of 2021
water to clean engine was this past summer
If I find anything else I`ll pass it on
Thanks John!

 

We're gaining here. So, here is what I am seeing (2-6-2023)

* 11-28-2005 - 121,544 miles - replace fuel injection pump
* 12-02-2005 - similar miles - replace lift pump (install in-tank lift pump)
* 12-12-2008 - 161,335 - CPS code and replaced CPS (P0336)
* 03-31-2012 - no miles - Code P0336 w- as cleared and not replaced
* 08-03-2012 - no miles - P0336 again and this time replaced
* 01-09-2015 - 228,216 - replace fuel injection pump (truck died and was towed)
* 10-02-2015 - no miles - replace fuel injection pump under warranty (truck towed again) This is when I had the FASS pump installed by this mechanic because of the LP failures I can`t find the ticket but it was right around this time.
* 08-17-2017 - no miles - Another CPS code and new CPS
* 00-00-2018 - no miles - I`ll have to dig more for receipts but I know the ECM was replaced summer of 2018

Let me know if I got anything wrong. If you find more information (I hope you do), just insert it where it needs to be, copy and re-post. Also, if you note something significant about the truck's behavior, add it to the timeline with a description. Keep the timeline clean and it will be easy to follow.

Can you find out and describe exactly how the lift pump is wired? Also, where is the lift pump location?

- John

 

Went digging through my reciepts and found some more
I`ll just try to do the timeline over
11-28-2005 - 121,544 miles replace fuel injection pump
12-02-2005 same miles replace LP (in tank pump) also on the ticket "R&R fuel tank and replace Transfer pump with updated unit and run new wires and replace fuel block on side of engine. As I recall this was the time the transfer pump was put into the tank.
** 01-10-2008 -151,482- alternator replaced
12-12-2008 - 161,335 CPS code (P0336) replaced CPS cleared codes
3- 31-2012 -199,969 scanned and (P0336) CPS showed up again. cleared code no replace of CPS
8-3-2012 -202,670 - scan system and code (P0336) again this time replace CPS
**06-11-2013 -213,280 - new mechanic truck running poor , scanned code (P0216) Injector pump code, installed fuel pressure gauge-no lift pump pressure, Removed tank and replaced lift pump
**06-17-2013 - same miles - truck won`t installed new injection pump all grounds ok no codes
**11-26-2013 -217,905 - replaced noisy alternator
01-09-2015 - 228,216 - replaced injection pump with reman Bosch pump. truck had died while driving and had it towed to new diesel mechanic
**02-13-2015 -no mileage- repaired wire (doesn`t say which wire unfortunately)
10-02-2015 -no mileage- injection pump replaced under warranty (truck towed in again)
Right after this I had the FASS pump installed by same mechanic because of LP failures can`t find the ticket. I also had this mechanic install the Isspro gauge and a heater kit a few months after FASS was install because the fuel was freezing in the filters and pump area. (We will hit negative temps out here often in the winter.
08-17-2017 - no miles- CPS replaced by the new mechanic stated in new date 01-18-2018
**09-28-2017 - 257,600 - new alternator
**01-18-2018 -no mileage as i replaced this. Took it to new mechanic who specializes in electrical issues. He suggested I have NAPA make me a new battery cable the one across the front from positive to positive.
**08-24-2018 -diagnosed commputer issue
**09-17-2018 -no mileage- replacement ECM (says on the ticket PCM but the it is the ECM that was reman on it that year)
**03-11-2019 -no mileage- FASS pump wasn`t turning on so took it in to this same mechanic. He searched all over and found a blown fuse and this is when I found that the ISSPRO gauge was not hooked up properly because it was still registering that I had fuel pressure for the FASS pump when I knew it wasn`t running. He installed it properly.

This has been pretty eye opening for me John with how many times I`ve had the same problems over and over. I had been going through difficult times having to let my Farrier business go so I`m sure that was why I didn`t realize the consistency of this. I hope you have some ideas! Thanks again for your help. Denise

 

All the ones with the double ** are the new ones I`ve added. Sorry it took me a while to do this. I only have time between my bus routes.

 

Great job providing the timeline information. Much, much easier to see the history of the truck. Couple of questions:

* What is the current odometer reading on the truck?
* If I am understanding correctly, the last repair to the truck was in March of 2019?
* From your previous post, "We replaced the ECM again last month and my mileage is just under 300,000." Shouldn't this be added to the timeline? I took the liberty of copying your timeline and adding the ECM replacement as the most recent repair.

Went digging through my reciepts and found some more
I`ll just try to do the timeline over
11-28-2005 - 121,544 miles replace fuel injection pump
12-02-2005 same miles replace LP (in tank pump) also on the ticket "R&R fuel tank and replace Transfer pump with updated unit and run new wires and replace fuel block on side of engine. As I recall this was the time the transfer pump was put into the tank.
** 01-10-2008 -151,482- alternator replaced
12-12-2008 - 161,335 CPS code (P0336) replaced CPS cleared codes
3- 31-2012 -199,969 scanned and (P0336) CPS showed up again. cleared code no replace of CPS
8-3-2012 -202,670 - scan system and code (P0336) again this time replace CPS
**06-11-2013 -213,280 - new mechanic truck running poor , scanned code (P0216) Injector pump code, installed fuel pressure gauge-no lift pump pressure, Removed tank and replaced lift pump
**06-17-2013 - same miles - truck won`t installed new injection pump all grounds ok no codes
**11-26-2013 -217,905 - replaced noisy alternator
01-09-2015 - 228,216 - replaced injection pump with reman Bosch pump. truck had died while driving and had it towed to new diesel mechanic
**02-13-2015 -no mileage- repaired wire (doesn`t say which wire unfortunately)
10-02-2015 -no mileage- injection pump replaced under warranty (truck towed in again)
Right after this I had the FASS pump installed by same mechanic because of LP failures can`t find the ticket. I also had this mechanic install the ISSPRO gauge and a heater kit a few months after FASS was install because the fuel was freezing in the filters and pump area. (We will hit negative temps out here often in the winter.
08-17-2017 - no miles- CPS replaced by the new mechanic stated in new date 01-18-2018
**09-28-2017 - 257,600 - new alternator
**01-18-2018 -no mileage as i replaced this. Took it to new mechanic who specializes in electrical issues. He suggested I have NAPA make me a new battery cable the one across the front from positive to positive.
**08-24-2018 -diagnosed commputer issue
**09-17-2018 -no mileage- replacement ECM (says on the ticket PCM but the it is the ECM that was reman on it that year)
**03-11-2019 -no mileage- FASS pump wasn`t turning on so took it in to this same mechanic. He searched all over and found a blown fuse and this is when I found that the ISSPRO gauge was not hooked up properly because it was still registering that I had fuel pressure for the FASS pump when I knew it wasn`t running. He installed it properly.
**01-15-2023 - 299,500 - replaced the ECM again

Are there any more recent repairs or observations to add? Right now, your timeline shows no repairs or observations between March of 2019 to January of 2023.

Ok, now what is the current issue you are having with the truck. Does the engine run? Are you driving the truck? Any current codes? Please give as much detail as you can. The detail can be added to the timeline with date and odometer reading.

Again, great job with providing information.

- John

 

Truck not running right now and mileage is just under 300,000.
Spring 2021 to the present these are the things that have been going on
I was driving in to town and the truck died and I managed to get it started again but all my gauges quit working. Eventually they came back on after I stop a few places shutting the truck off and starting it.
Then sometime in the fall 2021 I was driving in to work in the dark. Truck dies and won`t start, call friend with tow truck and while waiting after several tries it started and I drove it home and parked it.
I`m able to drive it with no problem for a time. I even drove it up to a sled dog race in Colorado without issue until it was time to leave the site. This was January of 2022. Truck did not want to start. Kept trying and finally got it started. Came down off the Grand Mesa (10,000 feet) and drove home with no more issues.
From there I ended up needing a new starter probably from all the cranking up on the Mesa.
This past June we had to evacuate our place due to a wildfire with all the dogs and I used it to hook up the fifth wheel and we hauled out for a day until we got notice we could go back. Got home parked the trailer and that was the last time I have been able to drive it without consistent issues.
What we are having is a hiccup while idling and RPM needle drops off then will come back up but sometimes stays down for a while. P0336 code is one that shows up about every time. All of the following listed here has been over the last 6 months.
We replaced the pigtail on the CPS and it fired up and ran for a few days. Then I took it to the wash rack and cleaned the engine trying to use caution about wiring. Tried to start it up and it wouldn`t. Had to let it sit for about 20 minutes and it started up.
My new mechanic has been reading through the manuals and testing wires
So far found that the heater grid and elements were bad so replaced them
Found a wire from the PCM to ECM that was bad and fixed that problem
I was able to start the truck and run it for a weekend but beyond that I don`t trust it to take it anywhere.
The latest work has been a reman ECM purchased from FlagshipOne. I tried sending the old one off to have it repaired but they called and said it could not be repaired because the microprocessor was bad.
Last thing he did was use the wiring schematic someone posted on here to rewire the FASS to the old LP wiring. FASS would not turn on at all so he hotwired it and it turned on but could not get the truck to start at all. This was just last week. Check engine light has been a constant through all of this and codes P0336 and P1689 no communication between the ECM and injection pump module.
That`s all my brain can handle to think of tonight!
One more thing is I`m not exactly sure how the FASS was hooked up by the original mechanic.

 

I am adding the re-wiring of the FASS lift pump and the setting of codes P0336 and P1689 to your timeline. I will date them for last week.

Timeline History for Denise's 1999 Dodge Cummins (updated 8:00 pm, 2-7-2023)

11-28-2005 - 121,544 miles replace fuel injection pump
12-02-2005 same miles replace LP (in tank pump) also on the ticket "R&R fuel tank and replace Transfer pump with updated unit and run new wires and replace fuel block on side of engine. As I recall this was the time the transfer pump was put into the tank.
** 01-10-2008 -151,482- alternator replaced
12-12-2008 - 161,335 CPS code (P0336) replaced CPS cleared codes
3- 31-2012 -199,969 scanned and (P0336) CPS showed up again. cleared code no replace of CPS
8-3-2012 -202,670 - scan system and code (P0336) again this time replace CPS
**06-11-2013 -213,280 - new mechanic truck running poor , scanned code (P0216) Injector pump code, installed fuel pressure gauge-no lift pump pressure, Removed tank and replaced lift pump
**06-17-2013 - same miles - truck won`t installed new injection pump all grounds ok no codes
**11-26-2013 -217,905 - replaced noisy alternator
01-09-2015 - 228,216 - replaced injection pump with reman Bosch pump. truck had died while driving and had it towed to new diesel mechanic
**02-13-2015 -no mileage- repaired wire (doesn`t say which wire unfortunately)
10-02-2015 -no mileage- injection pump replaced under warranty (truck towed in again)
Right after this I had the FASS pump installed by same mechanic because of LP failures can`t find the ticket. I also had this mechanic install the ISSPRO gauge and a heater kit a few months after FASS was install because the fuel was freezing in the filters and pump area. (We will hit negative temps out here often in the winter.
08-17-2017 - no miles- CPS replaced by the new mechanic stated in new date 01-18-2018
**09-28-2017 - 257,600 - new alternator
**01-18-2018 -no mileage as i replaced this. Took it to new mechanic who specializes in electrical issues. He suggested I have NAPA make me a new battery cable the one across the front from positive to positive.
**08-24-2018 -diagnosed commputer issue
**09-17-2018 -no mileage- replacement ECM (says on the ticket PCM but the it is the ECM that was reman on it that year)
**03-11-2019 -no mileage- FASS pump wasn`t turning on so took it in to this same mechanic. He searched all over and found a blown fuse and this is when I found that the ISSPRO gauge was not hooked up properly because it was still registering that I had fuel pressure for the FASS pump when I knew it wasn`t running. He installed it properly.
**01-15-2023 - 299,500 - replaced the ECM again
**02-01-2023 - 299,500 - rewire FASS lift pump to be controlled by ECM. Lift pump won't run. Lift pump jumpered, but engine will not start. Codes P0336 and P1689 set.
Code P0336 - (M) Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Signal - Problem with voltage signal from CKP
Code P1689 - (M) No Communication Between ECM and Injection Pump Module - Data link circuit failure between ECM and fuel injection pump. Low power, engine derated, or engine stops.

Something that needs to be answered, does the "Wait to Start" light come on when the ignition switch is turned to the "Run" position? This must happen every time the ignition switch is turned to the "Run" position. If the "Wait to Start" light does not come on, then the ECM will not boot up. There will be no power for the fuel pumps relay for the injection pump to operate and no power to the lift pump circuit to operate. The engine will not run. This step needs to be verified before going any further.

- John

 

Yes wait to

yes! wait to start light does come on

 

Timeline History for Denise's 1999 Dodge Cummins (updated 10:00 am, 2-8-2023)

01-09-2015 - 228,216 - replaced injection pump with reman Bosch pump. truck had died while driving and had it towed to new diesel mechanic
**02-13-2015 -no mileage- repaired wire (doesn`t say which wire unfortunately)
10-02-2015 -no mileage- injection pump replaced under warranty (truck towed in again)
Right after this I had the FASS pump installed by same mechanic because of LP failures can`t find the ticket. I also had this mechanic install the ISSPRO gauge and a heater kit a few months after FASS was install because the fuel was freezing in the filters and pump area. (We will hit negative temps out here often in the winter.
08-17-2017 - no miles- CPS replaced by the new mechanic stated in new date 01-18-2018
**09-28-2017 - 257,600 - new alternator
**01-18-2018 -no mileage as i replaced this. Took it to new mechanic who specializes in electrical issues. He suggested I have NAPA make me a new battery cable the one across the front from positive to positive.
**08-24-2018 -diagnosed commputer issue
**09-17-2018 -no mileage- replacement ECM (says on the ticket PCM but the it is the ECM that was reman on it that year)
**03-11-2019 -no mileage- FASS pump wasn`t turning on so took it in to this same mechanic. He searched all over and found a blown fuse and this is when I found that the ISSPRO gauge was not hooked up properly because it was still registering that I had fuel pressure for the FASS pump when I knew it wasn`t running. He installed it properly.
**01-15-2023 - 299,500 - replaced the ECM again
**02-01-2023 - 299,500 - rewire FASS lift pump to be controlled by ECM. Lift pump won't run. Lift pump jumpered, but engine will not start. Codes P0336 and P1689 set.
Code P0336 - (M) Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Signal - Problem with voltage signal from CKP
Code P1689 - (M) No Communication Between ECM and Injection Pump Module - Data link circuit failure between ECM and fuel injection pump. Low power, engine derated, or engine stops.
**02-08-2023 - 299,500 - verified "Wait to Start" light activates with key in "Run" position.

Good to hear you have a "Wait to Start" light.

I copied the timeline from 2015 to keep it shorter. It contains the most pertinent information. Is the truck at the mechanic's shop? Is he continuing to work on it?

The repeated CKP code showing up over the years is likely to be a wiring issue, but it could also be a broken tone ring on the flex plate part of the flywheel. It should be inspected, if it hasn't been already. The CKP should have three wires - one for ground, one for signal, and one for 5 volt reference supply.

As for the P1689 code, the engine will not start as long as that code is set. Since the code means there is no communication between the ECM and injection pump module, I recommend to use an ohmmeter to check the continuity of every wire between the two units. Also, inspect the electrical connectors for any pins that may have been pushed back slightly, especially the ones on the ECM since has just recently been replaced.

Check for good electrical grounds for the ECM. Good electrical grounds are crucial. If the ECM ground wiring is original, I think there is an OEM ground splice that is of questionable quality. That splice location is between the ECM and driver side battery negative post.

- John

- John

 

The truck is here at my house. My guy does not have a garage to work in. He basically works for the university but works after hours. He had a knee replacement so between that and our significant snow dump it`s been a slow process. He will be out tomorrow or friday and I will make sure he gets this information. Thank you so much for your ideas. He has tried to look at the tone ring through the block with a scope but couldn`t really tell. I did not mention that this is a five speed manual so is that relevant to the fly wheel end as well? His next plan was to check all the pins for the ECM as well and it is helpful to know about the questionable ground splice!. I copied all this down that you said. His is not an arrogant person so he is good at taking suggestions fortunately! Thanks so much again John. I can`t tell how much I appreciate your help. I`ve learned a lot not having my truck especially getting my sled dogs out to train. I figured a route from my place and haven`t spent a dime on expensive diesel and have a good friend who has been helping haul water to me. I`m hanging on to the hope that Hunter will find the issue. I`ll let you know the outcome of the next visit! Denise

 

Sounds good. Keep us posted on the outcome.

Edit - 2-9-2023

@farrier , I think it could be worth your while to subscribe to the Mopar1973Man site for additional help. The subscription is $10 per month should you want to try it on a monthly basis. The site excels in providing help for the 2nd Generation trucks - especially the '98.5-'02 trucks with VP44 injection pump engines.

One excellent article that is offered to paying members is the W-T ground wiring modification specifically for the VP44 trucks. This modification is essential to VP44 operated engines.

This wiring modification addresses the ground splice connection that I previously mentioned. It also addresses re-routing the alternator output wire and PCM grounding, as well. The results are a much more stable electrical environment by stopping or significantly reducing stray electrical interference to electronic components. The modification greatly reduces the risk of early PCM and ECM failure.

The VP44 trucks can be very reliable - just my opinion. I have kept my truck in very good electrical condition (owned it since new) and I have done the W-T ground wiring modification. Currently 370,000 miles on the odometer, still using original ECM, PCM, Bosch alternator (replaced brushes and bearings), starter (replaced brushes and bearings) and all engine sensors with exception of the APPS (replaced once).

My VP44 injection pump was replaced under warranty at 87,000 miles - interestingly, the same code P0216 as you had. The replacement VP44 pump has logged over 280,000 miles.

- John

 

Is this a different site? I saw the posts about the W-T ground wiring modification and something on here about the alternator wiring as well.

 

I got on that site Mopar1973Man and was able to find the W-T wiring instructions. Looks pretty simple to do especially for Hunter. He may have to get to it tomorrow because the north wind is blowing so it`s pretty cold out there with no shelter. I`m feeling pretty hopeful about some resolution here! Thanks again John! I will let you know how it goes. I sure am learning a lot myself.