BD Iron Horn Turbo conundrum - PO299 & PO236 2005 Dodge 3500

Back in 2019 BD promoted their "Iron Horn" Turbo upgrades (Turbo (no waste gate) & exhaust manifold)..

Installed BD Iron Horn 5.9L Cummins Turbo Kit S36SXE/76 0.9AR-03-07 Dodge Cummins 5.9L Item No: BDD1045170 (Flow 77lb Min - #2 of 5 in their hierarchy of performance - with a towing & gauge symbol) from Thoroughbred Diesel in July 2019. Mileage 167940. Also installed Mr Bob's hoses and the BD intake Manifold.

Around 173 K Miles (Sept 2021 – 5000 Miles & 2 years later) we were stuck in a long Interstate HWY Traffic Jam with some Engine turnoffs and lots of Starts creeps and stops which triggered a CEL PO299 Generic Low Boost Code and poor performance pulling my 14K Fifth Wheel. Diesel Shop in TN could find no issues and cleared the Code. Trip was from Cedar Rapids Iowa to home in AL.

Towed my Fiver successfully uphill from Alabama to Imperial Nebraska in early June this year (1300 miles).

In the last few months, I've encountered BAD low speed bumps twice (NOT towing) and got the PO 299 Code which my cheap Scan Tool claims it clears but the Check Engine Light stays on BUT the CEL goes away later "on its own" - Mileage 176K

Took my RAM to the local Auto Shop on July 11 to have the MAP Sensor changed thinking that was most likely the problem. MAP Sensor was replaced.

Subsequently some more low speed bumps led to a new CEL PO 236 Turbo/Supercharger Boost Sensor A Circuit Range / Performance. My Scan Tool claims to erase but doesn’t. On July 29 the Auto Shop cleared the code with the note: “MAP Sensor too high too long”.

CEL PO 236 returned the next day. Current Mileage is 177K.

My OBD Boost Gauge APP shows 7-9 PSI driving slowly/idling around town but 25 PSI accelerating to 55 mph (fastest I can go in this small town!) so the Turbo is performing fine (?)

I contacted BD Diesel and they responded:

“The turbo that you installed is considered a performance upgrade. It is larger and will flow more than the stock turbo did. Your computer expects to see a certain amount of boost at a certain speed with a certain throttle input. With the bigger turbo its going to be running less boost until it sees enough fueling to spool it up. Because of this at slow speeds from time to time it will throw that code. If you installed a performance tune into the truck giving it a little more fueling and injection timing in most cases these go away. “

My questions are:
Is there some other Turbo sensor that needs to be checked?
Maybe the NEW MAP is bad?
Is there likely a bad wire/connector/electrical problem?
Is a Tuner really needed?

Thanks for any advice!

 

I'm not versed in Turbo sizing/performance yet, but just to clarify.

You're using a larger than stock turbo, on a truck with no additional fueling or programing calibrated towards it right?

 

Yes but the lowest level Iron Horn Turbo had a flow of 75 lb/min and I installed the next higher up 77 lb/min versus the top Turbo with a flow of 90 lb/min.
How much more than Stock am I that I could tow and drive for 5k miles with no issues?
That’s part of my quandary

 

Do you mean their S363?

Off of BD's website listing for this kit they have a pretty thorough chart guide and video explaining the kit setups for truck use/application. If you are on the S363 with a stock output 05 and no tuning I can see why you'd have a few issues.

They recommend 30 overs for that setup. This chart is from their page. #ad


To find out how much over stock you are you'd have to look at the specs for an 05 trucks turbo, but again I'm not as versed on sizing. Someone else might be able to chime in and help with that. Was your truck a HO or stock output from the factory?

 

What was the idea behind when you installed all that expensive hardware?
Without a tuning that won't work properly, the ECM is programmed for the stock Turbo and its response to throttle input.

It can work most of the time, but under certain circumstances it can throw codes.

 

Stock
I’m still puzzled I could tow 14 k Fiver thousands of miles without a code….
Thanks for the Chart which is more informative than the Ad in the TDR I went by
So I guess a Tuner is in order but I know even less about that!

 

My Ram is somewhat a Hobby to me since I retired in 2007 purchased the 05 Ram and 05 Fiver and joined a Church construction ministry that we serve most Summers for Months at a time.
- added Air Compressor, 5 Gallon Tank and Air Horns
- PML Diff Cover
- new roof clearance lights
- Thermal Blankets on Valve Cover and Oil Pan
- Homemade “cool hose” to the stock airbox
- Replaced drivers side rear passenger door wiring
- On my Third Radio CD Player with new Speakers and Sound Deadening along the way
- Replaced power seat front and rear lifters along with Geno’s seat cushion and recently a new leather seat cover
- Ram improved additional fuel filtration
- used Powerserve then Stanadyne and now Howe’s Diesel Fuel additives
So the BD ad in the TDR seduced me after some severe steep Campground hill climbs….

 

My best guess is it came together with altitude, air density plays a big role if it comes to Turbo spool time.
Just 3000ft i can feel, 10'000ft is the max full pressure altitude - on a stock setup.

 

You might want to open a new thread for the best tuner that matches your Turbo.
I'm running a Smarty JR on mine, it's a nice little box so far, easy to use, but it has its limitations because it's a canned tune.

 

BD suggested “EFI”
Thoroughbred Diesel made other Tuner Suggestions
I suppose the Tuner could raise fuel injection “30%”? Per the Chart posted earlier?
Armor Inc EFI Live apparently is for 06 or later…
edge Juice is over $1K!
Smarty Jr is $495
Smarty Touch is $895
For that expense would it be safe to assume any Tuner would do ?
I suppose a shop with $$$$ Scanner would still have to clear the code…

 

Most Tuners that i know can read an clear codes too.

 

Maybe @AH64ID chimes in here, he is very knowledgeable about the different Tuners and which one would fit your, and your trucks, needs best.

 

I wish my $300 Innova Scan Tool would clear this Code!

 

Not all tuning hardware/software is the same. I personally wouldn't touch any Edge product.

 

No EFI live for your 05, it’s a 06+ setup.

It really comes down to what you want to spend. On the cheaper side is the Smarty Jr. I ran one for years and really liked it, but that was before custom tuning.

A MM3 with a custom tow would be my #1 recommendation, but it’s going to be more than double a SJR.

Odd that you can’t clear the code. Does it clear other codes? If so, it’s possible that there is another issue and it won’t clear due to a persistent issue.

Too high for too long is not a low boost code, that’s for too much boost when there shouldn’t be, or a bad MAP sensor. I would disconnect, clean, apply dielectric grease, and reconnect the MAP sensor and AAT sensor.

Does your scanner show live data? It’s possible the AAT sensor in the intake is bad. The ECM compares the MAP (intake manifold) pressure to the AAT (turbo inlet) to determine boost.

 

Thanks !
I wondered if there was another sensor!
But my OBD app continues to show 9 to 25 PSI of boost so wouldn’t that be what the ECM sees?

I’ve ordered a Smarty Touch with EGT probe.
BD suggested that was a good alternative to EFI.
Since I’m not at home I’ve got an appointment at a not too far away Diesel shop in Grant NE later this month to tell my tale…

 

Is the IAT the same as AAT? #ad

 

Ordered a new IAT from Geno’s Garage- no harm installing a new Sensor as they may wear out someday anyhow…

 

AAT is pre turbo/Ambient Air Temp, IAT is post turbo/intercooler air temp, at the intake manifold.

 

Thanks for the distinctive nomenclature clarification!
I’m no mechanic or expert
Is it a distinct Sensor from the MAP and where is the IAT on my engine?
I Really appreciate all the advice I’ve been getting!
I need to get the CEL cleared so DW is happy too before we have to tow our Fiver home from NE to AL sometime in October.
So glad I’ve been a TDR member since 2007!